This month I interviewed Nathalie Walton, vice president of brand and social impact at Babylist. She’s also the former CEO and co-founder of Expectful, a holistic wellness app for hopeful, expecting, and new moms. We’re talking about all things maternal mental health in honor of Mother’s Day and Mental Health Awareness Month.
Transcript:
0:00] Music.
[0:06] Hello, and welcome to the LT in the City podcast, your monthly dose of motivation, inspiration, and more.
I'm your host, L'Oreal Thompson-Payton. On this show, we're all about leaving perfection at the door and showing up as our full, authentic selves.
You'll hear from me along with some special guests about everything from life and love to work and wellness.
So get cozy, because we're gonna get into it.
[0:26] Music.
[0:31] Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the LT in the City podcast.
Today, I am joined by Natalie Walton. Natalie is the VP of Brand and Social Impact at BabyList.
She is also the former CEO and co-founder of Expectful, a holistic wellness app for hopeful, expecting, and new moms.
In 2023, Natalie sold Expectful to BabyList, the leading vertical marketplace and commerce destination for baby.
Natalie has an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business and a BA in Economics from Georgetown University.
She's a Forbes Next 1000 Entrepreneurs to Watch and is on the Fast Company Executive Board.
Welcome, Natalie. I'm so happy to have you.
I'm so excited to be here today.
[1:11] So I know we've talked a couple of different times or a few different publications and opportunities, but today I'm really excited to chat with you about the intersection of motherhood and mental health and wellness in honor of National Mental Health Awareness Month, which is May.
And I know we both came to Expectful actually from similar places in life, which is grappling with our mental health while pregnant. Can you share a little bit more about your pregnancy and birth story and how that impacted your mental health? Absolutely. So I'm someone who has been a practicer of holistic wellness pretty much, I want to say my entire life. I first learned about Buddhism and meditation at a Buddhist monastery in Thailand in 2002. And so I did like a silent meditation retreat at a very young age. And I didn't quite fall into meditation at that time, but I was introduced to it. And so it was part of my life, but even having cultivated this like lifelong interest in and meditation and mindfulness when I got to pregnancy.
[2:19] Everything shifted. And that's because really for the first time in my life, everything was out of my control. And I mean that in related to my health. So as someone who's into wellness, you can imagine like I was into what I ate, I was into my fitness. So I thought everything was going great throughout my pregnancy. And then I showed up at my 20 week scan and I was told that I was at risk for preterm labor. And I was told that I should be very vigilant because I could I could lose, I could have my baby at any time.
If you hear that at 20 weeks, you know, there's a certain threshold where you need to.
[2:55] Your baby needs to be more than 20 weeks.
It's really difficult for a baby to survive. And so when I got that news, I was just, I had this huge burden, this mental burden of like, one, what did I do?
Like, and is there anything I can do to help my baby get to term?
Just like why it really, why is this happening to me? And I think on the first part.
[3:21] One of the most frustrating things was what my doctors kept telling me was, we can't tell you what you did that caused this, if you did anything that caused this, all we know is that black women are at higher risk for preterm labor.
And I kept thinking like, so you're basically saying because I'm a black woman, this is my fault because I'm a black woman.
And it's just, yeah, so there was nothing I could do. I started living my pregnancy literally in terms of days. I would get to day 195 and I'd be thinking, okay, I make it to 196 and I have that much more of a percentage of my baby being a little bit healthier and maybe growing a fraction of an ounce. It created so much stress mentally for me. And even though I did have this meditation practice and I was practicing mindfulness, I came across this app called Expectful. And I started doing the meditations that were geared towards pregnancy. So like Expectful knew exactly where I was in my journey and the language just spoke to me and all of the fears and the doubts and the burdens that I was carrying. And somehow.
[4:33] Even though I've been meditating, within a week after using Expectful's meditation, my condition stabilized and I made it to term, which was something that none of the doctors thought was possible. But there's actually a science behind it, and I now know the science, but it was really that getting into expect will help me get to term.
[4:53] That is such an amazing and I don't even want to like reduce it to a success story because it's just like you said that overall mental health and well-being, there's so much emphasis on physical health when you're pregnant. And I, my only regret with Expectful is that I didn't come across it sooner because I think like you, I had, I checked all the boxes, right? I was still being active.
I still had my streak going on Peloton, but I, and I was doing my edit meditations on Insight timer and shine at like other mental health and wellness apps. But what I found was dealing with PTSD from infertility and multiple IVF cycles. I had a lot of like anxiety once I was pregnant about something going wrong and the meditations unexpectful because they were specifically geared toward pregnancy. And then even knowing that I had to have a scheduled C-section, right? Like there's a section on C-sections, which can be overlooked a lot of times in the pregnancy world, they get a bad rap and it's really, you know, like not okay. So representation for all the C-section parents out there. But yeah, I'm just, I'm curious, like I said before, there's so much emphasis on the physical health. Why is it important as birthing parents that we focus on our mental health as well?
[6:07] So I guess I want to talk about some of the research that we've done at Expectful and and just research on mindfulness and meditation and pregnancy overall, because this research is really exciting.
So last year at Expectful, we published two studies. One was in the Journal of Perinatology, and this was an incredible study.
So I was a NICU mom. I had that emergency C-section, which is part of the reason why we built out that C-section meditation pack.
[6:38] So as a NICU mom, I found it incredibly hard to produce milk.
If you have like an emergency C-section, you're often very stressed, like things come early and your body's not really prepared to produce milk.
And so we did this study that looked at pumping NICU mothers and we gave them access to Expectful.
And we found out that the control, the women who used Expectful against the control who do not use Expectful. We found that those women produce seven ounces more breast milk a day.
[7:14] That's huge. I mean, I, at that stage, I remember going to the NICU and I had like little tiny vials of milk. Like if I could produce five milliliters, I was like, Oh, wow.
Like this is, this is something. And so I was like really impressed. And, um, this study found that women who listened to expect will produce that much more milk. But on top of that, the The study also found that women who used Expectful, they had decreased episodes of postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, and they made it to term, which goes back to my story of how meditation and mindfulness practice is so important.
We also did a study in the Journal of Midwifery and Women's Health.
And this study also showed that women who used Expectful saw reduced episodes of depression during pregnancy and anxiety, which overall just leads to better outcomes.
And then I'll reference a study that was published last year in UCSF.
And this was a really interesting study in my opinion. So they looked at stress responses of babies.
[8:26] So basically mothers during pregnancy were given meditation apps.
And they looked at the stress responses in the babies of the mothers who had meditated during pregnancy.
And the study found that women who meditated, their babies had better stress responses.
This is after birth. So imagine like, if you wanna give your baby the best possible outcome, reducing their stress responses, try meditating. Like how incredible is that?
[8:53] That's so awesome that you can give that gift. And by practicing mindfulness, really literally about like reading by example, right?
And now there is science that proves that that works. And I can imagine that there are some moms, some busy parents listening to this, and they're like, well, that's nice for you too, that you were able to do that, but I don't have the time.
[9:17] How do you fit it in? How do you prioritize mindfulness and meditation and your mental health with everything else that you have going on.
I totally hear that. Like, I mean, I get it that especially so before you have a child, if this is your first child, there's, there's a lot more time than when you have a child.
[9:37] So hopefully there, that you can find a time to fit in meditating before, but, but even if you can't, there's no judgment, no shade there. Um, what I like to do is I like to meditate before I go to bed, um, because it just helps me get a really great night's sleep. And I think everyone has very few people can fall asleep. Uh, the instant their head, you know, touches the pillow.
And so I think like you can find a five or 10 minute meditation that will not only help you fall asleep faster, but also give you better sleep. And there's a lot of studies that show the meditation leads to improve sleep. And we all know that at least for me, sleep in pregnancy was horrendous as was sleep with a newborn. Um, so, so yeah, like that is how I I personally fit in, but with Expectful, we have everything from like walking meditations where you can wrap your baby.
We have stroller meditations. We also have nursing and pumping meditation.
So if you're choosing to feed, I mean, that is something where you have a lot of free time on your hands.
And so rather than like stressing out about how do I fit this in, we think about meditation as like, well, here's all of this idle time that you have, or it's not idle, but it's It's time where you are not necessarily, you have time to meditate when you're nursing, when you're on a stroller, when you're on a stroller walk.
And so that's how we've created Expectful, to fit it in into those buckets of time where you can use it.
[11:04] Yeah, I'm all about kind of getting where you fit in. And the before times, you know, I was very rigid in my morning routine.
Right. I did my workouts. I did my meditation. I did my devotional.
And like it was very much like a checklist.
And I could get it done because I had more time now. Mornings are a little chaotic.
You know, like it's a rush to get dressed and get up and get ready and get to daycare. Today was picture day.
So, you know, there was even more emphasis on the hair and making sure everything is like neat and tidy.
And so the morning routine of yesteryear, I'm trying to now shift into, OK, it doesn't all have to take place in the morning.
I can spread it out throughout the day. I can maybe even try to come up with a new bedtime routine and meditation and like fit it in there once she's, you know, like down for the night.
But yeah, parenting has taught me a lot about flexibility that I did not have before.
But that get in where you fit in is a mantra, a mood, a lifestyle when it comes to parenting?
[12:03] Absolutely, 100%. And I know in the recent Fortune article, we talked about this Harris poll that was commissioned by CVS Health that said that 42% of working moms that surveyed were diagnosed with anxiety or depression last year, compared to 28% of the general population and 25% of their coworkers without kids.
What do these numbers tell you? Like what story is it sharing and why do we need to be concerned?
Yeah, I think, I mean, these numbers are very disturbing. They are disturbing because, I mean, that's a lot, like that's almost one out of every two people, two moms are impacted.
And I think what's disturbing about it is that.
It's just like there's a lack of societal help. That's what really startles me is that.
[12:52] The government isn't coming to save us. Sometimes the employer is coming to save us marginally, like if you're so fortunate to be in a company that enables this. But oftentimes, it's just on the moms to figure this out. That's the story that it tells me. We just have a country that that we're living in with like very, it's broken.
And that does not offer us the support that we need.
[13:18] And how are you personally dealing with this? Because it's like you said, one thing when you're pregnant and it's like before, especially when it's your first kid, you have more time and that kind of like luxury, you know, of time and everything.
And then once you are, once you're back to work, once you're, you know, like back from parental leave, everything kind of just comes at you all at once.
What methods have you found to be helpful? How are you prioritizing your mental health as a working mom?
What advice do you have for the rest of us? Because we are struggling.
The working moms are not okay.
Moms in general, parents in general, but especially I'd be like those of us who are living these dual lives, essentially, are having a really hard time right now.
Yeah, no, I think we are having, everyone is having a really hard time.
What has helped me is that I have had several friends have many more children. I just have one and some of my friends have three or four children and I don't know how they do it. And they're successful working moms. And I asked them like, how do you do it? And one of the things that they tell me is they really just look about, and from like a financial perspective of the first few years of being like a sunk to costs, where maybe it's something like, where you go into savings, or maybe you even marginally like go into that so that.
[14:35] You can take care of your needs and you can stay sane because the payoff of working down the line is going to eventually pay off. But in order to have that payoff, you have to deal with the sacrifice of today and you have to prepare and take care of yourself as much as possible.
And so when I thought about that mentality, I mean, that's not really a mentality that's widely discussed. Most people think I shouldn't go into my savings, I shouldn't go into debt to take care care of my kids. And I think that it's all in perspective. Like if you have the means or you can think about like, can I pay for a cleaner to come to my house so that I don't have to focus on, so I don't have to live in like a mess and particularly with the work from home culture, like if you're working from home and like that for me, I had that realization when I had my newborn and it was COVID lockdown and I was cleaning, I was doing all of this stuff and I was like, I can't do this.
And I just thought, let me hire someone to help me clean. And it just freed up so much mental energy and stress.
And it was expensive, but it was something that it was like an investment in my own mental health.
And I realized that is just an investment that I'm going to have to make right now in my life. I think that that is one is like thinking about where can you bring in help to free up your mental space and doing activities that you like. I think we've talked about this before.
[16:02] Like I don't like cooking. Amen. I don't, I don't.
I wish I did, but I don't. And I don't like cooking for my child.
He is a little bit of a pickier eater until like he's three years old.
And I guess ever since the time he could eat solids, like I've subscribed to all of these baby food services, everything from square baby to the toddler.
I I'm forgetting the names, but like little spoon, shout out a little bit.
If you want to sponsor this, let me know.
No little spoon should sponsor this because we get those deliveries like every two weeks and it just.
[16:35] It makes your life easier. I mean, in my mornings now, all I do is I pop something in the microwave for 30 seconds. And rather than spending minutes and minutes of mind share of like, what do I eat? Or what do I feed my child? So it's like, I think about ways that are like, financially, are they financially friendly? No. I could be saving money in other ways and investing in my longevity. But what I'm supporting now is my mental health so that I can stay working and advance in my career, and I'm just going to hope that one day it's going to pay off, but I think it will.
Yeah. And I appreciate your honesty about this, because I think a lot of times, and we do each other a disservice by not talking about what it's really like.
And I have a colleague, Megan, who did an incredible story, per fortune, talking to different CEOs and women who are in the C-suite about how they get it done.
And the secret is hired help a lot of times, or a family who lives nearby and they're pitching and that whole, it takes a village, yes, and sometimes you have to pay for certain parts of that village.
But like you said, it's an investment.
Everyone can't see this, listening now, but our background and my video screen is a hot mess because Easter brunch was the other day and we haven't cleaned up yet, but we are having the cleaner come in the next couple of weeks.
We use little spoons, which has been a lifesaver because I also do not cook.
My husband does the cooking and I love him for it, but meal planning and prepping for a family.
[18:02] Requires a lot of mental energy and sitting down to make the list and make sure everything's healthy and make sure you go to the mark. And it's just like, we can cross something off of our list.
Even for like random days when she's homesick from daycare and it's like, okay, well, we didn't plan for, you know, like to feed you three times a day because you get fed at daycare.
It just helps alleviate that stress. And I think we just need to be more honest about what that looks like.
And knowing too, for people, we can like, well, that's for CEOs.
That's for, you know, like women who are higher up. It's for all of us, and it is a privilege.
You've talked about this before, and even the fact that mental health is a privilege to be able to worry about that when there's so many other concerns that are happening, but I feel like it's that kind of both and.
Two things can be true at once, and there's no shame. I think that's the other thing.
There's so much stigma around the moms who don't, quote, do it all on their own.
We were never meant to, and that's just not the way it's supposed to go.
No, no, it is not at all. Yeah, and to come back to that part you mentioned about mental health being a luxury, because I love when you pointed that out in the previous conversation that we had, What?
[19:10] Paint for us the picture, I feel like, what is going on? I know there was the percentage, I think it was 40% of moms who birthed on Medicaid or something like that.
Yeah. So, I mean, one thing that became so apparent to me while working at Expectful is I did hundreds of user interviews.
And I think we have really great retention metrics and just great conversion metrics overall.
But there was this segment of people who were trying our app, would use it a lot during the free trial.
You know, what you think they would subscribe. But there is a pocket I noticed that weren't subscribing. And so I started digging into that pocket and I started interviewing people.
And what kept coming up time and time again was like, I loved using your app. I'm like a mom of five. Like I'm a mom of three. My mental health is in shambles. I need all of the support. But But to be frank, this month, I'm between paying for groceries or gas.
And so I can't afford your app.
I can't afford to take care of my mental health, even though it's only $5 a month. I can't afford that.
It's just out of my reach. And my thought, when I kept hearing that over and over again, my thought is like, wow, I mean, no one should ever have to decide between their mental health, gas, or groceries.
But unfortunately, getting back to the country they were living in, the society we're in.
[20:38] There's no safety net.
And that's what people are being forced to choose between. And so in many cases, I did see caring for your mental health is a luxury.
Because if you... I mean, to not have to worry about feeding your family or paying to get to work to provide for your family.
And when I started hearing that feedback over and over again, I really started looking at the numbers.
I see that close to 50% of moms that give birth in the U.S., the babies are born onto Medicaid.
I think the number is actually exactly what it is for the numbers of moms who have anxiety. It's 42%.
There are some places in the South where that number is in the 60%.
So it depends where you're talking to people.
But the reality is if almost one out of two births in the U.S. are happening on Medicaid, if you were on Medicaid and you have food insecurity, like that is probably a bigger problem.
It contributes to having poor mental health, absolutely. But like for many people, and this shouldn't be the way, but they need to figure out how to feed themselves before taking their care of their mental health. And that's awful.
Yeah, it's that hierarchy of needs, you know, that we learn about and making sure that those are attended to first before kind of these.
[21:55] Add-ons in quotation marks, because we know the value and the importance. And also, like you said, when it comes to making a decision between groceries and a mental health app, like, I need to eat, I need to feed my family. And that is really real. And like you said earlier, so much of this system and this country is broken, that it can be very, can leave you feeling very deflated and just kind of like pessimistic and nothing's ever going to change. And there's there's nothing we can do, but I like to think that we do need to change the system as a whole.
And there's also things that we as individuals can do, but from where you are, like, what is your perspective on what needs to be done? What needs to change?
Who needs to change it? And kind of where do we go from here?
[22:39] Yeah, I mean, there's so many layers to this question. So I'd say that one of the biggest areas, most basic areas where we could start is paid family leave.
I mean, I read lots of different statistics, but I think it's around a quarter of women in the U.S.
Have access to paid family leave. And it starts there because, I mean, pregnancy is, it is a physical event.
And I mean, it's people, when you go on, when you have a baby, people take disability leave.
It is a disability. And so like having to work through that disability, not only does it hurt you physically, it hurts you mentally, and it's bad for the baby's development. Like there's just so many positive studies showing Give paid leave. So I think that that's where we could start is like offering paid leave.
And who has to take care of that? That's on a government level right now. I mean, you have companies that are stepping into that, but I think that's something that's on a government level. The second thing is just affordable child care. I mean, child care.
[23:38] Oftentimes... I had a friend who responded actually to the post that I wrote about your article, And she told me her childcare costs more than her mortgage to care for her two children. And, that's crazy, right? To me, that's just crazy. But that's the reality that we're living in.
And so there could be more subsidies for childcare. I think that would be a huge help because that would enable parents to work more. It would free up the ecosystem. And that solution there is on the government level. And so I think that the biggest changes that could happen would be.
[24:21] On the government level. And it's like, those things need to change.
There are a lot of startups that are trying to solve mental health issues with mom and providing that village of support. But I think my frustration with those, and having been one of them too, and this is part of the reason why we sold Expectal so we could have more of an impact, is getting back to the problem. If half of the people in the country are not in a place to afford services to improve your circumstances, then it's like you're only helping the people that need help, that need help, but you're not helping the people that need help the most.
And so I think that the government has to step in and provide that support.
[25:03] Absolutely. There's so much that needs to happen. And I mean, I'm, like I said, an optimist.
I'm hoping that things can change and it will be different for our children should they decide to have children.
But hopefully it doesn't take a generation, you know, to make it better.
But it has to, it has to change. The system is fundamentally broken and we are all struggling as a result of it.
And something that has personally helped me, me, it took a while to get to this point, but was learning to ask for help.
So we talked about the hiring of help, but then also like reaching out to friends, hiring babysitters, like getting that additional support before shit hits the proverbial fan.
And I don't know if you are similar and like, I can get it done. I can do it all.
I can do that. Do you have any advice for the people listening, the working moms who are tuning in on how to ask for help? but something that seems so easy and yet it is so extremely difficult.
[26:01] Yeah, no, it is. I mean, this was something like I had to struggle with immensely when I became a mom was how to ask for help and realize that it's okay not to do it all yourself.
I mean, this is one place where if you have the resources for a therapist, I think like therapy is great. And that's because it's a whole different mind shift. It's something that maybe like in your childhood or your early adulthood, the way you were raised might prevent you from asking for help. And like there are deeper issues here that cause people to not ask for help. I struggled for some of them. And for me, I personally found that.
[26:36] Going to therapy and understanding like, why don't I feel comfortable of making my needs?
No. That was a really, it was an eye-opening experience. And I think that's been one of the best parts about becoming a parent is that personal growth that happens. So if that is something that is of someone has access to, I'd highly recommend getting a therapist in pregnancy to prepare for a postpartum to support you in that time. But other than that, I think it's understanding that like, there's just no shame in asking for help. And I mean, the worst thing that can happen is someone will say, no, I can't help you. And yes, that sucks, but it's like, it's the same place that you're in right now. And so like the benefit is, you know, you can ask for help and, and you could get the help. But like, if the person says no, then it's just like, you will have hurt feelings, but you're still going to be in the same place that you are.
So that's how I've kind of look at it.
[27:27] Getting a therapist and I, cause I've been in therapy since 2016, coincidentally enough considered with the election and inauguration, but you know, for obvious reasons, but then I actually switched therapists late last year because I realized similar to when I was using the other apps and then I switched to Expectful, I was like, I need something different in this season of life.
And so I intentionally sought out, I went to therapy for Black girls at 3 a.m.
After another crying bout because I just was feeling overwhelmed.
Like I wasn't doing any of the jobs that I have as a mom, as a employee, as a writer and author, like wasn't doing any of them well.
She wasn't sleeping. We weren't sleeping. It was just like a lot going on.
And I was like, I need someone who specializes in this season that I'm in right now and has a background in infertility and knows how that has impacted my experience and postpartum depression and everything.
And now I have this wonderful therapist and she is amazing who can speak to all of that and understands and gets it because she's also gone through IBF.
And so it's just being able to relate and not having to explain so much about my background and what I've been through and what it looks like has been really helpful.
It took, that was I think about six or eight months postpartum to finally get to a hey this.
[28:50] What I'm doing right now has served me well in the past but it's no longer serving me and I need need to make a change.
There's nothing more important I'd say than finding help that gets what you're going through.
I think like as a new mom, I had to switch therapists quite a bit. Like one, I needed a black woman, like someone that could understand racially everything that I was going through.
I also needed someone like a parent, because if you have people that aren't parents, like there's no worse advice than getting an outsider. So it's like, it's very important to find someone that understands your needs because your needs are so different from like, even like where you live, having someone locally, it matters, makes a difference. So my advice is if you've struggled with therapy in the past and it hasn't been the right fit for you, like try searching. There are really very specific types of therapists. Yeah. It's okay to break up with good therapists, y'all. You're not locked and bound into this contract and it's like dating, you know, You know, you got to shop around and find the right fit for you.
And it can make all the difference for your mental health. It is a worthwhile investment to do the research and to pivot and try again when it's not working out. There's no shame.
This is a safe space. You know, like, do what you need to do by any means necessary to get it done.
[30:09] Now, and I want to end on a high note, something that I want to incorporate into every interview and ask people, because there is so much going on in the world every day, there is something, like literally something.
And it will be something else by the time this airs as well.
So I want to know, like, what is bringing you joy? What's making you happy right now?
What are you looking forward to? Well, it is this weekend, we just had our first lovely spring day and I'm in California, which apparently where I live in San Francisco, it is a federal disaster zone. Oh, great.
[30:42] Yeah. Well, the pleasure of that is that apparently I get an extension on filing my taxes.
But I share that and that it's been raining so much that I'm in a federal disaster zone.
So it's been a gloomy winter and just to have like that warm sun on my face and like hear the birds chirping again and feel spring and rebirth, it feels so alive and like invigorating.
And so that's what's just giving me joy right now is the, we're in a season of rebirth and in so many different forms. And so that's what I'm excited about is like rebirth.
And maybe this is perfect timing because I'm talking to you the day after Easter.
Yeah, no, it's same here.
And people always joke like Chicago just, we don't really have a true spring, right?
It goes straight from like winter to summer and like we get a little fake spring for two weeks or so.
And I think we're in that sweet spot right now where the sun is out, we can go back to walking to and from daycare and the days are longer.
So it's starting to feel a bit more hopeful, I feel like, It has been lately.
And then just another question, because I'm personally curious and our kids are not too far apart.
Any advice for surviving these toddler, these early toddler years and him.
[31:57] It's a ride. It's a wild ride. Yeah, it is a wild ride. I mean, like, I want to say like, it gets better, but like, that's not very nice to the toddlers. It gets more amusing, like I'm more amused. I mean, it's a different type of parenting, like it's a different journey, but I'd say that what I love about it is getting back to just the personal growth that you have, it's like learning how to be a conscious parent and be there for your child in the way that your child needs you. It's a really like a beautiful like growth opportunity. And so I think what is really fun is like your child continues to grow as if you open and you welcome the challenge that parenting brings you. I think the reward is seeing is how you meet them there. And so that is a really fun is seeing the personal growth that my child has spurred in me.
[32:48] Yeah. It's interesting, right? Because each phase I feel like has its own challenges and rewards. And now that she's like developing a personality and talking, you know, and figuring things out, it's just kind of like, whoa, you're.
[33:03] You're a whole little person. And yeah, for me, learning to regulate my emotions so that I can come to her from a calm and more like less disoriented space, it's been practice for both of us. I feel like it's, I'm learning so much from her And I feel like that's just kind of like what parenting is, I guess, right?
They teach us and we teach them and we help each other grow and learn.
It is. Yeah, that's parenting in a summary right there. Yeah.
Well, is there anything else you'd like to add? You want to share with people before we head out?
No, this was just so I always love talking with you and I love what you're doing.
And yeah, I hope that I can stay in contact with your readers.
If you want to follow me on Instagram, I'm at NatalieWalton, it's N-A-T-H-A-L-I-E-W-A-L-T-O-N.
I also just built a website, it's www.NatalieWalton.com and that's with an H, so N-A-T-H-A-L-I-E-W-A-L-T-O-N.com.
I'm active on LinkedIn and I encourage you to check out Expectful on Instagram.
I think we have a really great feed. We're at Expectful and also give a shout out to BabyList.
They have a cool feed on Instagram too.
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Natalie, for joining us. It was great having you and yeah, we will definitely keep looking forward to it. Thank you so much.
[34:28] Thank you so much for listening to the LT & the City podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode, I encourage you to share it with a friend and ask them to check it out too.
Resources and links from today's episode are available over on the show notes.
And as always, you can find me on social media at LTInTheCity.
Thanks again for tuning in.
[34:44] Music.
On motherhood & mental health