Y’all, I’m so excited to share with you the first interview for the podcast: my good friend and award-winning poet, singer and songwriter Pam R. Johnson Davis. This month we’re talking about creativity, jealousy, friendship and so much more! Be sure to follow Pam on Instagram, subscribe to her newsletter and buy her books.
Transcript:
[0:00] Music.
[0:06] Hello and welcome to The LT in the City Podcast, your monthly dose of motivation, inspiration, and more. I'm your host, L'Oreal Thompson Payton. On this show, we're all about leaving perfection at the door and showing up as our full, authentic selves. You'll hear from me along with some special guests, about everything from life and love to work and wellness. So get cozy, because we're gonna get into it.
Hello everyone, and welcome to The LT in the City podcast. I'm your host, L'Oreal Thompson Payton, and today I have a very special guest. Pam R. Johnson Davis is an award-winning poet, speaker, historian, and singer-songwriter who is curious, questioning, humorous, and tender. Her work has garnered numerous accolades, including the coveted Reader's Favorite Poetry Book Award and two Global Music Awards. You can find her on Instagram @unapologeticallypam. I am so, so excited today, y'all.Pam is my best friend, my sister, my like fellow BeyHive member. And I just, this is going to be a great conversation.It's going to be wonderful. Pam, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you for having me. Not me immediately singing Beyonce in my head, like, I didn't want this power.
But do I. I do want this. I want to be. You do.
And you're great. And I love that for you.
[1:27] We're doing it. Y'all, so for a little bit of background, We have talked for years about doing some kind of podcast conversation situation.
And so finally we're making it happen. And I'm especially excited because it's National Poetry Month.
And as I already mentioned, Pam here is an award winning, best selling poet.
Get into that.
Get into it. L'Oreal is the person who consistently tells me to own my shine, stand in my power, do all of the things, and I am still very awkward, but trying to get better at saying yes, I am all of those things, while also remaining the person I am, who is actually very down-to-earth, clumsy, and joyful. And just all-around wonderful human being. And so, creative to creative, I have to know I'm very much interested in everyone's origin story. When and where did you first fall in love with writing?
[2:27] Oh my gosh, I love this question. I have a lot of early memories of writing. So one of the first early memories that I have is my mother was like really adamant that me and my siblings would, be able to speak in front of a crowd, to be able to read and share stories. Like she had this idea almost of like grandeur that we would be able to stand in front of an audience and say, Hello, my name is Pam and this is my story. So she literally got me a tutor to start teaching me to read and I was reading pretty fluently by the age of three. Yes. Come on baby genius.
[3:07] Shout out to all the good teachers and tutors and the mothers who hire them.
So I was reading and writing pretty early on because of that. And I've always been a really He imagines his person, which I don't know is always celebrated, you know, if you're always living in your head as a kid.
I don't know. Sometime in adulthood, that stuff gets kind of stamped out of us, but I'm really grateful that as a writer, I've been able to retain some of that sense of wonder and imagination.
But so I started writing around three, four, five. I started writing these little short stories and performing them in front of my parents.
Maybe Pam.
Maybe. It was either I was sharing my own stories or I was reenacting the movie Pocahontas from start to finish, songs included.
Yes. To an audience of my mother and father.
[4:02] Again, shout out to them for being present during that time.
From there, the moment that I can really define. So it's like all of these were little seeds being laid in my garden of writing, right?
Getting that tutor at the age of three, and learning to really like understand the shapes and the design of letters and words and all of the things.
And then starting to write my own little stories. And then there was this moment, there was this moment.
We got one of those big back Dell computers. Now, if you are younger, you might not remember the time before laptops, but there was a time when like a computer was real heavy, like 200 pounds, big back.
It wasn't connected to the internet or nothing, but it had notepad on it.
And that was the first time I had access to that at home. I was maybe nine or 10.
[4:53] I wrote this insane book.
Beautiful, weird fiction story about a little girl who finds a wonderland in the forest and escapes the real world to go and live in that wonderland as often as she could.
And there's all kinds of characters, talking squirrels, talking flowers.
There's communities in the forest and all of these things.
I spent an entire summer writing that story, developing all the characters, and just finally letting all that imagination and wonder that normally lived in my head out onto paper.
I typed the last word, I put the end, I felt so accomplished, and then that big, bad computer broke down.
No! And the story was lost forever. That is a tragedy. I'm a little kid.
I don't have no emotional regulation. I cried for like two months.
[5:54] I would too, I don't blame you. No, that's, yeah.
Yeah, that was the moment though that I fell in love because I realized how much I cared, about it, how much I had put myself into that story and how much of my brain power had gone into making it and then for it to be gone, never to be seen again. I could never recreate it again.
That was the moment that I knew that I was in love with it and that writing really meant something to me and I feel like again if everything else was seeds in the garden, that moment, that failure was the foundation being laid, and the rest has grown from there.
I love that. And I have never heard this story, which I mean, for how long, how long have we known each other? Like five years or so?
[6:43] Just, it's very interesting how much we can trace back to our childhoods.
And I know we joke all the time about being the same person, but like, actually the same person.
Because I vividly remember when I was six. So I also started writing at three.
I don't know when I started reading, but there's like a picture of me and my sister.
Hey, April. She's like a little baby propped up in the corner and I'm writing next to her with this laptop, not a laptop, I'm a liar. I was three.
It wasn't a laptop. It was a notebook in my lap is what I was trying to say.
And I'm like scribbling in my little baby handwriting and whatever, I have no idea what I was writing.
And like, every time I told the story, it changed because I was three.
So like, I was just making it up as I went.
But when I was six, like in the summers, my sister and I would spend the days with our grandparents while our parents were at work. And I wrote this story about dinosaurs in outer space and illustrated it as well.
[7:38] And- Honest? Wait, you were drawing too? I was drawing, girl, back in the day.
And my dad, when he came to pick us up that evening, was like, I told, cause of course I was excited.
I was like, daddy, look, I wrote this story. And he's like, oh, you should add it to your reading log for the summer reading challenge at the library.
And I was like, I don't know, are you sure? Like, it's not a real book.
I'm not a real author, right? Like even at six, I had this idea of like what was real art and what wasn't.
And his theory was, well, if you wrote it, then you read it.
And I was like, okay. And I was so afraid.
I thought the librarian for sure was gonna like catch on and like, hey, the name on the card is the same as the name on this list and like deny me my little t-shirt, right, for eating the reading challenge, I don't think she cared.
But that stood out to me as a moment where I was like, oh, I'm a real writer.
Like I'm an author and here is my book.
I am absolutely obsessed with that story. I'm also absolutely obsessed with your dad's, but your dad, I don't know that your dad knew that he was instilling in you that do you write, than you're a writer. Yeah.
A young and tender age to be told no.
[8:55] You did that and that makes you this means that you were able to sort of submit that into your developing brain that is at I'm obsessed. Okay. Shout out to daddy. Shout out to the parents who pour into you know because it sticks with you obviously like here we are as adults grown ass women telling these stories from our childhood these seeds that were planted and I'm curious to know like where you draw your inspiration from as a singer, a songwriter, like you are literally one of the most creative people I know, like you and Beyonce, although I don't know her personally yet.
[9:33] So, I'm not going to say yet. But the Virgo energy is very strong.
So I just got to know like more about the inspiration and your process.
If there, you know, is one that you attach yourself to or like how that works, just let us know.
I don't have a specific process, which is always really interesting for people to find out.
I, well, I don't know, maybe this is a process. I was about to say, carry a notebook everywhere.
And I was like, wait a minute, that is kind of a process. That's part process, yes.
How do I write and where do I get inspired?
I know this may sound cliche, but I get inspired by everything.
I remember one of the first poems, I'm gonna tell you all a little bit more about who I am.
So if you don't know me, I am very happily married now and have a home and a life that I really love, but that has not always been the case. I've survived a lot of trauma from the age of seven.
[10:28] Honestly to about 30, if I can keep it real with you. I have, I married very early, went through a divorce, I experienced homelessness, had to humble myself and go to the government to get food stamps and all sorts of things. I've lived a lot of life and during, especially during the time where I was going through my separation and then divorce and experiencing homelessness and doing all the things.
[10:55] Luckily, I had the foundation of being a writer, a person who would journal often or would write about things that I saw.
And one of the very first poems that I wrote while I was literally experiencing homelessness, sleeping in my car, looking up out the window, was this poem about the stars.
It wasn't about what I was experiencing like on a larger scale at that time.
It wasn't about the divorce.
It wasn't about the pain that I was going through. it was about the wonder of looking up at the night sky and seeing all of these lights shining on me at a time where I felt I was very much in the dark and very much not seen and very much lost. And it was like the stars were this map that were guiding me to something new and different. So I wrote this poem about it. But the reason I was able to is because I had a notebook with me. I have been a person who has always, always carried something to to write with.
And it was never with the intention of being like, I'm gonna be a published author.
I'm gonna write this poem to share with people. It was me trying to make sense of my life.
And I know that I do that best when I put pen to paper.
And so I always have this notebook with me and I write about the things that I see.
So that's a specific story, but it applies to my everyday life.
Even before we got on this podcast interview, I was writing down what I hope to be true.
Now, would that become a poem someday or something I would share more broadly, who knows? Bye.
[12:25] I feel inspired by the world around me. I feel inspired when I see my cat taking a bath, like a sun bath, you know, right by the window. I feel inspired when I see our mail delivery person hold the door for someone. I feel inspired when I have a good meal.
Amen. Amen.
[12:46] When I get some good food, I'm like, hold on now, I just need to write that down.
I really do see, continue to see, oh gosh, man, I just feel like I had an epiphany.
That little girl who saw imagination and wonder everywhere. I feel like that's who I am now.
And that's why I write about things that I see that inspire me.
See things that seem very simple.
Like, oh my gosh, a bird just landed in a nest. How beautiful.
But then my brain is like, oh my gosh, that a nest is up there.
That means that bird has babies up there. And oh my gosh, what's their first flight gonna be like?
And oh, wow, let me write this down.
I just, I don't know. I see wonder everywhere around me and I carry a notebook with me always so that I can write about it.
And that's kind of my process.
[13:31] Be inspired anywhere. That's it, like period. Mic drop, right?
But I think sometimes, especially I spend way too much time on Twitter and there's like all of these webinars and workshops and people sharing this like 12 step process And for me, at least, it really, it's not that deep.
Right, like I think now as a mom and author and like all these other things, I've had to become a bit more disciplined in my process, but it's still kind of a hot mess if I'm being honest, like inspiration strikes anywhere and anytime.
Like I wrote a lot of the chapters in the book while I was nursing Violet in the middle of the night in those very early months.
But if I had waited for like the perfect time and let me get to the coffee shop with my oat milk latte and lo-fi hip hop playing in the background, like the book wouldn't exist.
It wouldn't be because that perfect moment just is not, it's not real.
It's a myth. And we have to like detach ourselves from like, oh, once I had this or once I check this off and once I do that, then I'll like, no, just start now, start messy, but just start.
Literally, yes. And I think that's one of the beautiful things too is when I say I carry a notebook around, Let me be more specific.
[14:49] Sometimes that notebook is the notes app on my phone. Sometimes it is an audio journal on my phone.
Sometimes it is an old receipt that I got from, I don't know, Mariano's, no, Dollars.
CVS, because you know they got them long ass receipts. CVS, they basically give you a script background for you to write everything down on.
That carry around a notebook can look like a lot of things. Something that allows you to get what you're carrying out on paper or out of your brain in some way for you to go back to. That's more what I mean. So, I love when you use the real literal. I was going to say analogy, but I'm like, that wasn't no analogy, wasn't no metaphor. It was real life. Up late at night, nursing by like literally being like, huh, I have an idea for the book. But also on the flip side, I feel like, and this could be be an outside looking in perspective. I feel like you are much more disciplined about structuring time for writing. Like if I call you or text you and you're like I'm working on a chapter for this or I'm working on a story for this, it.
[15:54] Feels to me from the outside looking in that you do, you are able to somehow build in a lot of structure for your writing. How do you do that?
Listen, I think it was by force because there was a deadline for this book that I pushed back a few times.
So thanks, Rachel, if you're listening, for being super understanding, because it was the perfectionist in me that was dragging my feet and procrastinating or writing because I had it in my head that I had to submit this perfect first draft.
And those words don't go together. Like, that's just not a thing that exists, a perfect first draft.
Like when it was like, okay, there's, you know, there's deadline, there's a contract.
[16:35] High to this as well. That's a good motivating force, right? I had to be like, okay, you know, like we, we got to, we got to sit down and get this done. I got to call Jeff in to, you know, like watch her, take her away. Let me have like an hour or two to focus. But it was, I think, out of sheer necessity that I had to become more disciplined this time around and writing a book with a full-time job and a baby because time is so scarce.
I didn't have time to waste like I did before, or just kind of like, oh, when the urge strikes me or whatever, it was like, no, there's a real deadline.
And this, if you don't meet it, it's gonna push everything else back.
And there are people waiting for you, like both agent and the publisher and the editor and everything, but then also people who are listening now and subscribers and my followers and everything.
It's like, I don't wanna disappoint everyone else, So I gotta get it together. I gotta do this.
[17:25] To be clear, you're talking about me because I want to read it.
I'm ready to read Stop Waiting for Perfect.
And it's been a process and continues to be a journey. And I know that you kind of walked the walk first, and I'm very grateful for that because you can share your learnings and your wisdom.
And because we're keeping it all the way real here, the first book, when that dropped, I remember, Summer 2020.
And you had told me, I was like, oh my gosh, that's exciting.
And then like we had talked a week or two later and I was like, girl, I got to be honest with you, because I saw the card at the this bookstore that I was at in Oak Park after I got my hair done.
And I was like, the card said, I'm 97% happy for you and 3% jealous.
[18:11] And I was like, I feel so seen. And I was so I don't even know that I was scared to share that with you because you are a safe space for me.
And because our friendship is so deep and so real and so authentic and vulnerable, I felt safe sharing this otherwise very kind of like taboo thing that we don't openly talk about, right?
Like we're human, people are jealous and yet it's frowned upon, you know, in this society.
So no one says anything. And I was just like, this is where I'm coming from and how I'm feeling. And you received that and didn't judge me and held space.
And so I just wanna know what that was like from your perspective, like where you sat in receiving that and just like how you've navigated jealousy and relationships and friendships and creativity.
Because like I said, Twitter, I every Tuesday people are announcing book deals.
And before I got mine, I was like, mute, mute, mute.
I just stopped going on Tuesday, like all together. I was like, no, I can't because I know what people are.
And I was I was jealous. It can be a motivating force and use for good, and it can also get really ugly.
And so, yeah, I'm just curious to know what your experience has been with jealousy.
[19:25] Oh, L'Oreal, you are my best friend. I remember when I had decided that I was going to publish that first book of poems. I was so nervous to tell you.
I was really, really, I don't know, I was really anxious. But it wasn't even just about telling you, knowing that you also are going to be an author.
[19:49] Because I feel like I've always known that, you've always known that you would be an author.
And at the time you were still querying, you were still working to get that book done, okay?
And transparently, the poems in my first book were poems that I wrote, again, while I was going, it was written over the course of seven years, of going through my separation, then my divorce, the experiencing homelessness, the finding myself, learning to love myself again, therapy, finding new love and learning to accept that love, and then falling head over heels into that love, getting married again and trying to build a home with someone after you feel that you failed the first time. That book is all of that experience in that journey over seven years, but transparently that book was never meant to be published. I wrote all of those poems for myself. I had no intention of ever publishing them ever. And I had what I would call a spiritual moment that led me to decide to publish that book. And when I made the decision, the first person I wanted to tell, aside from my husband, was L'Oreal. I wanted to I'm gonna tell L'Oreal immediately.
But then to your point, that 97% excited, 3% jealousy, that 3% jealousy part, I was like, oh no, oh no, oh no.
What will L'Oreal say? What will she think?
Will she be okay? Will she hate me?
[21:15] Will she feel like, why you ain't tell me you were publishing a book?
What's happening right now? I felt a lot of emotions or things, but I'm so happy that I trusted you with it because that moment solidified for me.
I was already like L'Oreal is definitely one of my soulmates, like my soul knew her already before I knew her in the flesh. Like my soul knew her and was waiting for her.
[21:39] And I was like, what if this is the moment where we're no longer friends?
And instead, L'Oreal brought all of her humanity into this conversation with me, the joy, the excitement, the 3%, all of it.
And I felt so at ease and so present and so loved and so held and so seen.
Because maybe I too have a lot of jealousy. Let me give you all an example.
I have a lot of musician friends who write all kinds of really cool music.
One time, I had a musician friend who had written a song that I love, and this friend submitted it to this magazine for a big music magazine to be reviewed. They're very selective about who they choose to review music for, and they did an interview with my friend and like published the cover art of their song and all of these things, and I was like, oh my gosh, how exciting.
I'm working on music, I'm going to apply to that magazine when my music comes out.
Spoiler alert, I never even hear back from them. They didn't even send me a rejection.
They just, all of my follow-ups just went unanswered.
And I remember feeling like, no, what do my friend have that I don't have?
I know my music just as good. And then, through much prayer and invocation, through AKA therapy, and like helping me process. Shout out to therapy.
[23:07] Sitting with my therapist and helping me process that feeling of both still being over the moon for my friend this is a big deal.
You got a magazine feature for your song while dealing with my own grief.
[23:20] Of being not only rejected, but just Ghosted. Invisible.
Yeah, literally ghosted, disappeared from it.
I need it.
My therapist taught me that I needed to honor my full humanity just like L'Oreal did with me bringing her full humanity into that conversation, I needed to keep that same energy for myself and honor my full humanity I can feel both joy for my friend and grief for myself at the same time. We are complex beings We are capable of carrying both emotions and now with time things change now.
[23:54] I've forgotten about that moment until L'Oreal asked this question and now I can laugh about it because because it's been a few years and it's like, hey, things happen.
I've had lots of other opportunities that have come between now and then.
But at the moment, it felt like that was going to be my only opportunity.
And because my friend had that opportunity and got it and I didn't get it.
No one's ever going to love me.
Listen, I feel that on a spiritual level, for many reasons, that scarcity mindset is real.
And my favorite yoga teacher, Peloton instructor, shout out to Dr.
Chelsea Jackson Roberts always talks about the both and, because I experienced it and you were there at the thick of it when we were struggling with infertility and everybody.
So background for those of y'all who don't know us in real life or in social media, Pam and I, real life friends, but also worked together for a period of time.
And I think I counted that summer about like 12 people who were pregnant or on leave, or like at some part of that.
[24:57] And baby, the jealousy was real and happiness for them. Actually, I remember the holiday party where you being the incredible human being that you are and seeing how I was struggling in a moment when we learned that a coworker was expecting and again, we were a height of our struggle, even though if we had started IVF yet, I don't think so, but we're like, let's go ahead and leave and go to, I forget where we went, but we got pie.
I remember we got pie and food is one of my love languages and you know that.
And so you held me in that space physically like literally and figuratively.
And I just felt so safe and so seen and so supported. And it just really speaks to the testament of who you are but also what friendship can be because I think oftentimes it's so superficial or you're worried about, I can't say this because I'm gonna offend this person and I can't share how I really feel because what if it's not received well?
But when you have a true friend, you can show up as your full, authentic, imperfect, messy self.
And that is such a blessing. And I'm so grateful for you for being that person for me.
[26:11] Literally, I'm gonna try not to cry. Sam, you show up for me at times where I don't even know that I needed someone to show up.
There has been, as I alluded to, I've experienced a lot of trauma, decades worth of trauma at the hands of folks who were supposed to love me, which then makes it difficult for you to believe, even in your fully grown adult self, that when someone says they love you, that they mean it.
And that means that they will love you when you are imperfect and when you are struggling and when things are bad and things are hard. And because of that, I tend to like, I don't know, go into myself and just like cover myself and just hide in the shell for a while. And y'all, literally, I did that one time. And L'Oreal was like, girl, you got to let me know when you about to go into this shell. Okay, because I need to know you all right. Yeah. And it just, it made me both laugh and cry. And then she sat with me, like L'Oreal literally sat with me as I told her this story of this particular grief and the trauma that I was experiencing at the time. And L'Oreal, you didn't judge me, you didn't invalidate me, you did all of the opposite, actually. You sat, you held me, you held my hand. We were in public too, and I'm trying not to cry in public, and you were like, let it, come on, let me hold your hand, let me hug you, let me be with you in this moment.
[27:37] This is the kind of love where you get to feel safe, to say I am experiencing the 97% and the 3%.
This is the kind of love where you're safe to say, I'm hurting, I'm grieving, I'm lost, I'm worried, I'm happy, I'm joyful, I'm scared, I'm nervous, and know that you're going to be seen or held.
And I know that I'm not alone in the experience of saying, it is not often that you find that love. So when you do.
Hold on. Baby. Baby. Hold on. Because to be loved by a black woman in particular is.
[28:16] It's a religious experience. It is spiritual, it is special.
And growing up, I had my own, like working out to do with my blackness and accepting that and embracing it.
And now I fully live into it.
And growing up wasn't always the case. This was the Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera era and black girl magic wasn't trending.
Michelle Obama wasn't an Obama yet, right? Like Beyonce was still in Destiny's Child.
And so like all of these examples that we have now, I didn't see back then and internalized a lot of self-hate and just as a product of the environment I grew up in, literally my family was the first black family to move into our neighborhood.
I was one of two black girls in my graduating class at an all-girl Catholic high school.
And so I didn't have, until I got to college, a lot of close black friends.
And that was even like one or two, but I think now, you know, like on one hand.
And so it wasn't until adulthood and meeting you and developing this sisterhood that I was like, oh, I get it now.
This is special.
This is really special.
[29:33] And y'all, we can kiki all day because I relate to so much of what you just shared too, which I won't just rehash all of that here, but same, same.
Growing up and being seen as either one of the good blocks, which, girl, I just, you know. Problematic.
[29:53] Incredibly problematic. So growing up and having that experience or being the only one in the room or experiencing that internalized oppression where you're being taught to be wary of other black women and other women.
So then you don't know if you're safe or you don't know who to trust or where to go.
And then, child, you have to do the work to unlearn so much of what society teaches you about your blackness and about your womanhood and then about your black womanhood, period.
And it feels really wonderful to have gotten to this place now, where it is one of the things that I trust most in my life, is my own black womanhood and your black womanhood and having this sisterhood that we've built and knowing that this also isn't the end and that there will be other black women that I will meet who will value me and see me and hold me and care for me and love me.
You haven't met all the people who are gonna love you yet and all the people that you then get to love in return.
It's just, it's like a whole new world has opened up and I will refrain from singing the song, but a whole new world has opened up indeed and it's beautiful.
[31:04] Loving a Black woman is beautiful, y'all. Loving a Black woman, being loved by a Black woman, like we're it. We're everything. And it is so beautiful. So beautiful to see and to witness and experience.
And that is something, too, that I just love about you and showing up.
Like I said, I feel like a broken record now.
But as your full authentic self, and I mean, it's in the name, right? Your Instagram is unapologetically Pam.
And for those of us who are starting that journey or curious about it and trying to become our own unapologetic selves, what advice do you have?
How have you managed this? And yeah, just any kind of words of wisdom, that words of wisdom you can pour into others who are hoping to do the same.
I love this question.
And there are many things that I could say as an answer. But the one thing that's really on my heart right now is becoming unapologetically yourself is a journey.
I don't think there's a destination. I don't think there's an arrival point where you're like, I'm it, this is it, this is the end.
Unless it's the end. You know what I mean? And so it is a journey, one.
[32:21] And on that journey, you will have to practice radical self-acceptance over and over and over and over again.
You will have to accept your feelings.
You'll have to accept your experiences as valid and as real.
You will have to accept your grief. You will have to accept your pain.
You will have to acknowledge truths about yourself that you have run from.
And it is scary. I highly recommend that you talk to a professional that you work with someone through this, if you can.
And that professional, for many therapeutic modalities, If therapy itself is not for you, there is music therapy.
There are yoga classes. There's like movement is very much a therapeutic modality.
If you join one of those, who was the Peloton?
Chelsea Jackson-Roberts.
[33:13] Come on, Chelsea. Listen, join one of her classes because I keep hearing over and over again, they're incredibly spiritual.
There are many therapeutic modalities that you can try if therapy is not accessible for you.
But I highly recommend that you work with someone who will help hold you in that grief and in your pain because there will be many moments that scare you. And I promise you, it is easier to choose not to do this.
It is easier to say, nope, I'm not gonna face it. I'm not gonna acknowledge the dark.
I'm not gonna open that door. I'm just gonna stay hidden.
If you do that though, you will continue to limit the possibilities of who you can be and who you truly are at your core.
[33:56] So you want to do the unapologetic journey, baby, I applaud you, go on it, it will be the most daunting, sometimes the scariest, but the most rewarding thing that you could ever do for yourself.
[34:08] And the last thing I will add to that is this. We as black women, especially, but anyone who's listening, especially if you are a woman, I feel like we know I'm not even going to qualify that we do we live in a society that will often tell you that your worthiness is is can be explained by what you can produce and what you can do for others.
You cannot do for others what you can't do for yourself, period.
So you cannot love your kids, your husband, your community, your coworkers to the highest level if you can't do that for yourself.
If you can't see your own humanity or acknowledge your own pain and your own trauma and really face it.
Even if you say to someone else, oh, I acknowledge your pain and your trauma, you'll never be able to work with them and facing it truly if you can't face it yourself.
You'll always run from their pain if you're running from your own.
You can't show up fully as yourself for other people unless you show up fully for yourself.
And it is hard as hell. I do not want to lie. I don't want you to think that this is glamorous.
It is not glamorous work. This is that work you do with no makeup on and your hair ain't combed and you ain't brush your teeth, but you've been crying for two days.
[35:27] Yes.
[35:29] This is that kind of work. And it will be the most rewarding work that you do for yourself.
That's the unapologetic journey.
I just feel like he just took us to church. Let the choir say amen. Come on now.
Bring my cat over here and let him start me out on a song for us. Yes. Oh, I love it.
I just, all of that, so beautiful. So such a testimony to who you are and the love and light that you bring into the world.
And something I'm curious about because the world is literally on fire.
Like it's a garbage trash can most days.
And yet we find, you know, little moments, little pockets of joy.
And so I wanna know what is bringing you joy right now?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton. Ow! Oh! Oh!
[36:22] Thank you. And the same. And that is my honest answer. It really is though. It is being connected to people whom I love and who love me back. Like that reciprocal love is what's bringing me joy because you have to go out and seek it in this world. It is very easy to get lost in the pain and in the dark, in the darkness around us. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't care, about those things. You absolutely should. And we are complex beings and we are capable of carrying both immense grief and pain and immense joy and love. And if you don't seek that joy and love, it is very easy to sink into the dark and into the pain only. And that'd be the only thing that you feel. So where you can find that love, where you can find that reciprocal joy and love and peace and relationship, wherever you can find the light, find it. Run. Don't walk. Don't walk to the light, baby. To the light. So as I mentioned earlier, it being National Poetry Month, you being an award-winning, best-selling poet, I had to have you. I can't let you go before you share a little bit with us.
So take it away, Pam R. Johnson Davis.
[37:47] Okay. So I was spending a lot of time thinking about what poem to share today.
I have been experiencing a lot of feelings and so many of my poems reflect my feelings.
So I was like, which direction do I go? Do I go angsty? Do I go peaceful?
Do I go angry? What do I feel?
And what my gut says right now is I would like to share with you the shortest poem I've ever written and quite possibly my favorite poem that I've ever written.
This poem is called, Finally, and it's just three short lines.
And then one day when someone asked me, who do you want to be?
[38:38] Finally, I said, myself.
Poetry snaps, poetry snaps. I love that.
It is one of my favorite poems that I have ever written. It is one that I come back to most often when I find myself potentially slipping into that dark place where I don't believe that I am worthy and I don't believe that I'm capable and I don't believe those three lines bring me back to myself always.
[39:16] So beautiful. Thank you for sharing. And for people who want to keep up with you, what you're doing, where you're singing, when the next book's coming out, tell us more about where we can find you and what you're up to. Yay! You can find me on Instagram at unapologeticallypam.
[39:36] I am all over the interwebs. My website is unapologeticallypam.blogspot.com. I have a a newsletter which you can sign up for there on my website and I am trying to get better at sending out newsletters with updates and information as many people have told me in the last week. Girl, you got to tell us when you're about to do stuff because. One of the shows I'm most excited about during National Poetry Month this month is on April 15th I, be performing some music and poetry live at the Wonder Museum in Chicago from 1 to 5. So if you're in the Chicagoland area, come through, pull up. You can, if you buy your ticket for entry between 1 and 5 at the Wonder Museum Chicago, you will get to hear me doing music and poems and just, you know, setting the vibes. It's a really cool gig. I'm excited about my partnership with Wonder And yeah, it's one of the things I'm looking most forward to in April.
Love it. Thank you, Pam, so much for being my first guest on the podcast.
[40:48] Always a treat. I love you so much. I'm so honored to be the first, and I am so excited to bookmark this podcast to listen to every single episode.
And I know we're at the end, but I just feel like we didn't get to talk about stop waiting for perfect very much. We've been in there, you know, people in the show notes will will dive into, yeah, it's a long game. Get ready y'all, pre-order your copy of Stop Waiting for Perfect now because I cannot wait to literally use that book as like my example for things when I need people to, nope, nope, stop waiting for perfect for real, here you go, I'm gonna be showing that book cover to everybody. So pre-order your copy now.
Thanks, friend. Thank you so much for listening to the LT in the City podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, I encourage you to share it with a friend and ask them to check it out too. Resources and links from today's episode are available over on the show notes. And as always, you can find me on social media at LTinthecity. Thanks again for tuning in.
[41:53] Music.
On poetry, friendship and all things creative